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One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - Printable Version

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One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - System64 - 04-20-2023

Hi, did I just pushed Tilengine to its limits?
Tilengine demo
Only one layer was used, and there is no sprite at all!

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - megamarc - 04-21-2023

Just one layer?? Let me know how...
Are you using an object layer?
There is another black layer with blue characters and drawing primitives. The moving logo sometimes goes under the text and primitives, so that layer is not a tiled layer where you can play with per-tile priority.
I'm curious about it :-)

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - System64 - 04-21-2023

(04-21-2023, 08:47 PM)megamarc Wrote: Just one layer?? Let me know how...
Are you using an object layer?
There is another black layer with blue characters and drawing primitives. The moving logo sometimes goes under the text and primitives, so that layer is not a tiled layer where you can play with per-tile priority.
I'm curious about it :-)

Everything is on a single bitmap layer. If you draw stuff in the right order, you can emulate priority. The logo isn't a sprite either, it is a part of the bitmap layer.
But I went even further. What if we have 2 bitmaps layers... By using ONE Layer? And still no sprites!
Example with layer multiplexing.

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - megamarc - 04-21-2023

Haha you're going quite crazy with it! Biggrin

Yes, a bitmap layer is like a contained framebuffer where you can put anything you want there, but allowing composition and blending effects with other elements. You're already doing classic demoscene effects here.

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - System64 - 04-21-2023

(04-21-2023, 09:43 PM)megamarc Wrote: Haha you're going quite crazy with it! Biggrin

Yes, a bitmap layer is like a contained framebuffer where you can put anything you want there, but allowing composition and blending effects with other elements. You're already doing classic demoscene effects here.

I love demoscene effects, they look pretty cool!
I already ran Bad Apple on Tilengine, will post a video later... And maybe I can run something crazier on Tilengine...
But for now, what if Tilengine could display even more colors than Super Nintendo's Master palette, on a single layer?

[Image: image.png?width=739&height=671]

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - vonhoff - 06-04-2023

(04-21-2023, 09:52 PM)System64 Wrote: I already ran Bad Apple on Tilengine, will post a video later... And maybe I can run something crazier on Tilengine...

You mentioned that you used Tilengine to play the Bad Apple animation. Since the animation has about 6572 frames and a resolution of 480x360 pixels, it seems like a lot of data to store in memory at once. How did you handle that efficiently?

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - megamarc - 06-10-2023

(04-21-2023, 09:52 PM)System64 Wrote: I love demoscene effects, they look pretty cool!

I already ran Bad Apple on Tilengine, will post a video later... And maybe I can run something crazier on Tilengine...

But for now, what if Tilengine could display even more colors than Super Nintendo's Master palette, on a single layer?



Hi!

Sorry for my late reply. I always enjoyed demoscene works, back since the Amiga days as a kid, and the on PC in late 90s.

Since release 2.13 (2th Nov 2022) Tilengine can display more colors than regular SNES per layer when I introduced per-tile palettes:

https://megamarc.itch.io/tilengine/devlog/450879/tilengine-213-with-per-tile-palette-selector

SNES
  • Indexed (palette) modes: 8 palettes of 15 colors (the first one is transparent) = 120 unique colors shared by all layers
  • Direct color modes: 255 unique colors (limited to a single layer)
Tilengine
  • Per-layer palette: 255 colors per layer, can have many layers at once each one with its own palette
  • Per-tile palette: 8 palettes of 255 colors = 2040 unique colors shared by all layers
  • You can have both kinds of layers on a single frame
As you can see, Tilengine wins in color management  Smile

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - System64 - 06-10-2023

(06-04-2023, 06:21 PM)vonhoff Wrote:
(04-21-2023, 09:52 PM)System64 Wrote: I already ran Bad Apple on Tilengine, will post a video later... And maybe I can run something crazier on Tilengine...

You mentioned that you used Tilengine to play the Bad Apple animation. Since the animation has about 6572 frames and a resolution of 480x360 pixels, it seems like a lot of data to store in memory at once. How did you handle that efficiently?
Hi,

I used pictures from SGDK's Bad Apple demo. It is 30 FPS and has MegaDrive's resolution which is 320x224 (NTSC) or 320x240 (PAL)
I load all pictures as bitmaps and then I display the bitmaps.

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - System64 - 06-10-2023

(06-10-2023, 04:50 PM)megamarc Wrote:
(04-21-2023, 09:52 PM)System64 Wrote: I love demoscene effects, they look pretty cool!

I already ran Bad Apple on Tilengine, will post a video later... And maybe I can run something crazier on Tilengine...

But for now, what if Tilengine could display even more colors than Super Nintendo's Master palette, on a single layer?



Hi!

Sorry for my late reply. I always enjoyed demoscene works, back since the Amiga days as a kid, and the on PC in late 90s.

Since release 2.13 (2th Nov 2022) Tilengine can display more colors than regular SNES per layer when I introduced per-tile palettes:

https://megamarc.itch.io/tilengine/devlog/450879/tilengine-213-with-per-tile-palette-selector

SNES
  • Indexed (palette) modes: 8 palettes of 15 colors (the first one is transparent) = 120 unique colors shared by all layers
  • Direct color modes: 255 unique colors (limited to a single layer)
Tilengine
  • Per-layer palette: 255 colors per layer, can have many layers at once each one with its own palette
  • Per-tile palette: 8 palettes of 255 colors = 2040 unique colors shared by all layers
  • You can have both kinds of layers on a single frame
As you can see, Tilengine wins in color management  Smile

Hi, even 2040 colors are not enough to display this picture.
I display 44254 unique colors at once on this picture, on a single layer!

RE: One single layer, no sprites. Pushing Tilengine to its limits? - megamarc - 06-17-2023

Hi!

I see, you're displaying a direct color 16 bpp image (at least). For doing this, Tilengine doesn't have anything special to offer. As you're not using any feature like raster effects, layer composition or animation, I'd just use plain SDL2 to create a 32-bit streaming texture and blit video frames onto it:

https://wiki.libsdl.org/SDL2/SDL_CreateTexture